Vybz Kartel

I wanted to ask what you all think of Vybz Kartel. I saw he just released a new album today called "To Tanesha". Do any of you support him and like his music? Or is he shunned by most of you for serving a 35 year sentence for murdering Clive "Lizard" Williams? I was a bit surprised to Jesse Royal featured on one of the tracks from Vybz new album, it is a decent song.

i don't listen to autotune or hardcore dancehall music, but people really love this artist
i guess he's like the bounty killer of today
a hero for the garrison youths living in don controlled gang land







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/13/2020 08:38PM by Ras_Adam.

Vybz Kartel is a legend. A lot of folks here will say otherwise, but this man has dancehall on lock from a prison cell. Many on this forum will find reasons to discredit him, but his versatility is indisputable and range of melody/ lyrical content is huge. He has been making music for over 20 years and is still at the top of his game and produced over 60 singles in 2019 alone. Some people think dancehall is too shallow or just sexual but check the song Stand Strong- or the emotional depth of the new album you mentioned. I don't need to sell him but I don't think this board understands his significance, as much as I love Beenie and Yellow man, Kartel is the king of dancehall in this generation. Like him or not, his contribution should be respected.

Scalawah, while you're right that this forum isnt where you're going to find many Vybz Cartel fans, that doesnt mean the rest of your Cartel comments can't be contested to some degree.

Lets start with this one:

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..."but his versatility is indisputable and range of melody/ lyrical content is huge. He has been making music for over 20 years and is still at the top of his game and produced over 60 singles in 2019 alone. "

While I kind of like the tone of Kartel's unaltred voice, going by what ive heard by him, he doesnt seem versatile in the mildest defintion of the word. I also find that most of his songs have very little range or melody --- in fact, I find most of the riddims/vocals by him are rather similar, following the same pattern you often hear in 'dancehall' these days... I think musical terms like versatile or melodic should be saved for the likes of Chinna Smith or for singers like Ken Booth and/or Max Romeo.
And yes, Cartel does pack alot of lyrics in his songs but I havent heard anything too deep or varied from him...

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..."Some people think dancehall is too shallow or just sexual..."

I think some people think that because it's probably more true than false. Vybz has some of the most shallowest songs/videos as they go... a short visit to youtube is all that needs to be done there. While some dancehall may touch on heavier subjects, most is about touching up yuh gal or a Hennessy bottle [which sounds fun to me ;-) but endless songs on this 'topic' has a short shelf life imo.

..."but check the song Stand Strong"
I checked it and while its not a bad song, its far from being a unique, creative or classic chune. Havent we heard this same formula/riddim/lyrical flow enough by now ? I know i've had my share.

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..."He has been making music for over 20 years and is still at the top of his game and produced over 60 singles in 2019 alone..."

Scalawah, you must know already that dancehall artists, especially these days, are fairly known for releasing tons of tunes per year. But quantity is rather worthless if there isn't much quality to it. At some point, even Gregory Isaacs should have stopped recording so many songs per year. So the Vybz' 2019 numbers you mention only measure output, not quality.

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..."Like him or not, his contribution should be respected"

As someone that loves it when Jamaican artists make records specifically for Jamaicans/JA local issues, that's where I have the most respect for Kartel. Then again, like Ras Adam said, most of his songs are geared in a certain JA direction, a direction mind you, that is scoffed at by many Jamaicans, granted they be older Jamaicans.

We also cant forget that the kind of Dancehall made by Cartel and similar artists of today sounds almost as if it has no semblance or connection to dancehall from Jamaica that many people are accustomed to hearing. The rather stark and dark tracks we hear today sound more like a merging of an American produced sound than traditional 'Jamaican' dancehall.

So while I don't really care if, or disparage, younger Jamaicans for thinking that Cartel is a "legend', I sure don't have to feel bad because I don't feel his music or his vybe. Plus, doesn't he bleach - dat no good ;-/

In years past, I would turn the radio off when Ron Rankin got to the dancehall segment of his FM radio show,. Nowadays I can tolerate 1 hour a week of dancehall. I trust Rob Rankin will play something good and maybe I’ll hear something I like. Vybz Kartel got some tunes

“Blues, Metal, Reggae”

I like the point by point dispute. Is there a reason you call him Cartel with a C?

I think he is pretty versatile for a dancehall deejay and has a diverse catalogue of songs. Here's a small selection of songs to illustrate my thoughts and why I respect him as an artist. I do agree that dancehall today has evolved into a different sound and genre, and I'm not always sure how I feel about it (the trap influence may be a topic for another thread), but I am happy and love to see that the music continues to evolve. Thankfully there are artists that preserve the authentic roots and there are artists that push it forward, there are also artists that do both. That is what I mean by versatile.

While I do like some of his material both past and present the thing I just can't get over is the Murder thing.... He killed someone..... I don't understand the "Free Kartel" that every reggae/dancehall dj has to shout at every dance I have been to in the past few years. On the jamrock cruise 3,000 people were forwarding Kartel. I can't do it.

Lets put this to bed.. you may or may not support Vybz Kartel the person.. you can think whatever you want about the human. He is one of the most talented Dancehall artist to ever perform. If there was a dancehall Hall of Fame he would be in it. You don't have to like Kartel or his music that is fine, that is everyone's choice. His place in Jamaican Music is secure and he will get respect for his music long after we are gone.

this is a tough one. I love dancehall. I like a lot of new music comming out of JA. I understand its not purely reggae but im ok with that. I love Vybz Kartel. His music is fresh fun and makes you want to party. yeah its gangsta kinda dark at times...sexual??? sometimes but wtf this is ghetto music isnt it???? cmon guys .... i get it some of you will not like that he might have killed someone...how many people love rap artist across the globe.....killers gangstas....shottas but they still get love....cmon i think most of us understand where this music really comes from. i love all these new riddims comming out....and there are a lot of conscious dancehall artist (gappy being my #1)....some are complete bullshit but there are some hot tracks and if yall are cool with listening to reggae from a 60 yr stand point and thats it you are missing out one some good reggae comming out daily. i enjoy a lot of reggaeton these days too... and i never thought i would ever say that....if you asked me if i liked reggaeton at the first snwmf i would have said hell no.....ask me at the last snwmf i attended....i @#$%& love reggaeton. the riddims are so similar and these days they have been covering or using a lot of reggae influence....its truely is world music. its huge. these reggaeton dudes have billions of hits on dem youtube and spotify or whatever platform. Im just asking you all to truely realize reggae is still growing and evolving. Reggae is not that old. i tell people that all the time!!!lol.....i feel like we are still just getting started. i feel like the riddims and vybz will go on forever. i hope. anyways about vybz kartel. dude has some @#$%& bangerz. !!! his music to me is so good as are a lot of dancehall artist. just give it a shot. Same with rap. a lot of people shun the new stuff and i tell them the same thing...rap is not that old. its still growing, evolving,telling an ever changing story of a ghetto landscape. personally i enjoy street music i guess...always have. i just think people forget where we come from.

Yea Dr. Frankenstein was one of the most talented too (alleGORYcally)
but where the ethics of Truth, Beauty and Goodness in the murdah anti-music?
So fool yourself but ya can't fool dem who've seen the sequel in slow motion

Quote
Isaiah 5

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ... I have seen what is good called evil and what is evil
called good. Putting Light for Darkness and Sweet for Bitter ... they are wise in their own ego but
the ends are always darkness and sorrow

some scarface @#$%& right there. truth

Quote
Peacemakeya
Yea Dr. Frankenstein was one of the most talented too (alleGORYcally)
but where the ethics of Truth, Beauty and Goodness in the murdah anti-music?
So fool yourself but ya can't fool dem who've seen the sequel in slow motion

Quote
Isaiah 5

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness,
who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. ... I have seen what is good called evil and what is evil
called good. Putting Light for Darkness and Sweet for Bitter ... they are wise in their own ego but
the ends are always darkness and sorrow

The internet is one of the most evil things in the world, yet here we All are.

“Blues, Metal, Reggae”

reggaefan!

check your PM star.

m.

* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]

Quote
spliffp
While I do like some of his material both past and present the thing I just can't get over is the Murder thing.... He killed someone..... I don't understand the "Free Kartel" that every reggae/dancehall dj has to shout at every dance I have been to in the past few years. On the jamrock cruise 3,000 people were forwarding Kartel. I can't do it.

this makes sense when your value system says that all lives are equal.
the garrison value system probably says that some lives are more equal than others.
so if you come from such a value system and enviroment you may not see these end of life scenarios
as a 'murder thing'.. so you'll have no problem haling up kartel or calling for his release.

Peacemakeya.. Truth? some times the sun doesn't shine, it gloomy. Some times people do terrible stuff to one another. That is truth. People are sexual and sometimes they just want to let it out. People are violent to one another, that is reality. Many of the so called "Positive" examples of music are speaking of an ideal.. their music reflects that. Some people choose to make music about their reality and the experiences they have had. That isn't promoting them anymore than if I tell you I have had a bad day I am promoting having a bad day. For all of the "positive" music that has come out of Jamaica and still does... Jamaica is still a very hard and dangerous place for a lot of people to live. Music would be doing a disservice if that story wasn't being told

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Ninja say

Jamaica is still a very hard and dangerous place for a lot of people to live. Music would be doing
a disservice if the story wasn't being told

Yea but nothing new under the sun and it's an age old story. Bob M had his version: "So much troubles
in this world" but he didn't tell it like dog barking at the birds.

Sure Bob wasn't prefect - who is at this time on this planet? But he had a change of heart on his mortal death bed,
rising above the fairytale boobytrap of rule by terrestrial aristocracy. But in his musical inspiration he had song structure,
harmonies, and musical frequencies compatible to the inner human frequencies.

In this age of moral relativism ya best stand for something so you don't fall for anything ! In particular the subject
at hand of nasty Jamaican gangsta rap posing as reggae.

Quote
Matchs say

The internet is one of the most evil things in the world, yet here we All are.

All the great faith traditions say the same thing: We in this world but we not of this world.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2020 07:03PM by Peacemakeya.

Let's be real, enjoying music is not a moral issue, you either feel it or you don't, one can enjoy music without being in moral agreement with all of the content. Furthermore, we have digressed from the main topic here, which is Vybz Kartel. I like Vybz Kartel's music, I love dancehall, and if you are really paying attention to the music you know that it is much more than "Jamaican gangsta rap posing as reggae." Dancehall is the child of Reggae, they are related and they overlap but they are distinct, Dancehall is the Jamaican cousin of rap, the influences go both ways, but Dancehall is Dancehall and it is not posing as anything.

so Bob didn't do it that way.. so what? They are different people born into different times

So if Neil Young decided he'd had it with David Crosby and had a couple of his crew beat him to death and dispose of the body, get convicted of the crime and go to jail, Neil continues to write music in jail, records it on a smuggled phone and manages to release upwards of 50 songs a year, you'd wholeheartedly embrace him, cause, well, it was a crime of the heart? He's an incredible musician even though he's a cold blooded killer? Am i missing something? I know the culture in Gaza is different than here in cali, but when a life is worth less than a gun? When Vybz gets to say who lives and dies?

I don't care for dancehall and i didn't really care for the vybz tracks, but that isn't why i wouldn't listen to him. Perfect is one thing, murderer is another.

Love that reggae!

Ditto......Nomotrouble...Thanks for putting it all in perspective.........

Quote
nomotrouble
So if Neil Young decided he'd had it with David Crosby and had a couple of his crew beat him to death and dispose of the body, get convicted of the crime and go to jail, Neil continues to write music in jail, records it on a smuggled phone and manages to release upwards of 50 songs a year, you'd wholeheartedly embrace him, cause, well, it was a crime of the heart? He's an incredible musician even though he's a cold blooded killer? Am i missing something? I know the culture in Gaza is different than here in cali, but when a life is worth less than a gun? When Vybz gets to say who lives and dies?

I don't care for dancehall and i didn't really care for the vybz tracks, but that isn't why i wouldn't listen to him. Perfect is one thing, murderer is another.

yes, there are absolutes in life, but sometimes the parameters to those absolutes are perceived differently based on traumatic life experiences.
i'd imagine if your life starts out dealing with whats depicted in the below video, on a minute-to-minute basis, you'd probably have a different perspective on things..
not making excuses, but just saying none of us can imagine whats its like to live this type of life starting from day 0 you're pushed from the womb.
and no, living in the east bay is disneyland compared to this depiction. so save that.. big up still..

Neil Young.. that is funny.. Don't know Neil's history.. Probably closer to some of the old blues musicians and the early country musicians. Violence was not far from them.. ever.

chicago tribune-No drugs, no guitar:Crosby still writing tunes in jail





“Blues, Metal, Reggae”



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2020 11:17PM by Ras Matches.

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bigvein

Quote
nomotrouble
So if Neil Young decided he'd had it with David Crosby and had a couple of his crew beat him to death and dispose of the body, get convicted of the crime and go to jail, Neil continues to write music in jail, records it on a smuggled phone and manages to release upwards of 50 songs a year, you'd wholeheartedly embrace him, cause, well, it was a crime of the heart? He's an incredible musician even though he's a cold blooded killer? Am i missing something? I know the culture in Gaza is different than here in cali, but when a life is worth less than a gun? When Vybz gets to say who lives and dies?

I don't care for dancehall and i didn't really care for the vybz tracks, but that isn't why i wouldn't listen to him. Perfect is one thing, murderer is another.

yes, there are absolutes in life, but sometimes the parameters to those absolutes are perceived differently based on traumatic life experiences.
i'd imagine if your life starts out dealing with whats depicted in the below video, on a minute-to-minute basis, you'd probably have a different perspective on things..
not making excuses, but just saying none of us can imagine whats its like to live this type of life starting from day 0 you're pushed from the womb.
and no, living in the east bay is disneyland compared to this depiction. so save that.. big up still..

For sure Bigvein, i understand that perception varies based on life experience, and mine is a rather protected one. I grew up in Fairbanks Alaska, back when it got cold, so the east bay is disneyland to me! Doesn't make that shiite right.

Love that reggae!

Let us recall that there is an appeal in progress. The man could be innocent. A body was never found and the only evidence incriminating him was an infamous text message. Just saying, it would not be the first time the government has sabotaged an influential entertainer.
And if he is guilty, that means he is not just a studio gangster and his music is an authentic window into a reality you might otherwise not be exposed to.
Regardless of the verdict, if you really love and appreciate dancehall you know Vybz is in his own league.

AND.. the cell phone they used as evidence was used by the cops after they took it. Basically there is no way he would have been convicted in a US court.. I think people confuse conviction with you did it. Prisons have always held innocent people.. yes there is a lot of guilty ass people in there too.. but framing someone you don't like.. that doesn't seem so unbelievable

“Blues, Metal, Reggae”

unno old vampiyaaaaaaaaahhhh
[www.clintonlindsay.com]