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Stic from DEAD PREZ

Posted by Ras Danny 
Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 09, 2007 02:08PM

It's unfortunate but true that white people want the rest of us to ignore what their representitives have done and are still doing to the rest of the world. racism is so much apart of the white people's culture the average white person feels justified in their notions.

they're representitives enslaved afrikans for over 300 years, killed off the (so called)Indians,created capitalism to exploit the world populations, their religious institutions have funded slave expeditions and promote racism and sexism,, their clothing and fashion industries (based off cotton) has never paid any reparations to the deccendents of slavery today, their tobacco and meat industry are causing cancers all over the U.S., their profit based oil use is suffocating the environment with global warming, and their military machine is terrorizing nations all over the planet in the name of democracy.

Germany paid reparations to Jerusalem for the holocaust and the u.s.a. chipped in. The u.s.a. paid Hiroshima reparations for bombing them with the H-bomb and causing radiation to continue terrorizing the Japanese people, but they have never paid Afrikans any reparations for slavery, not even in South Afrika! The white decendents of slave owners have inherited and benefitted from the wealth, power and positioning in government and industry.

They have decietfully passed racist laws and changed laws whenever black and brown people tried to assert their equal rights. Slavery was abolished not by reparations being given out, but by war and after the civil war black and brown people still had to fight, bleed, go to jail, picket , die to be able to go to the same school, use the same toilet or ride the same bus as whites.

Once the people forced the system to"somewhat integrate" it was only in appearance. none of the white companies and families that benfited from the unjust treatment of black and brown people have ever been forced to pay any reparatios for their crimes. in fact, when you bring it up white people say "that's the past, get over it." but the position that white people enjoy today was gotten by denying the rights of other people not by being fair or just.

And the sytem today continues to exploit and criminalize black and brown people thru the "legal" system with unfair sentencing, rampid police brutality all over the hood, CIA involvemnet in the mass spread of crack cocaine in the inner city, and disprportionately long term sentences in prison for black and brown inmates.

Every president since the beginning of this country has been a white rich male and has work in the interest of the white population at the expense of everyone else on the planet. **** they even call the center government facility The White House and they called it that all during slavery, jim crow and up to the 07!

I don't say all this to say Hate whites. What good will that do? I say this as a staement of the facts so those few white folks out there that want to get on the right side of the rest of the world thay can have a basis on why we are saying **** still aint changed. White people created the culture where a black man is a "nigger" and we called our oppressors Cracker cause of the crack of the whips on our backs!

There are black folks who support the white power system as police, military, politicians, religious leaders, school teachers, lawyers and through all spectrums...so we must be aware of their role as traitors, too.

This is all the time at the moment i can give to this "white folks " issue cause we got Black Power business to tend to and i wouldnt give a f*** if whites don't like me as long as we have the power over our own lives and they can't use their hate to oppress me thru the gov't and other social channels.

If u wanna hate blacks go ahead but as we get our power up, just don't get in our way. as long as a white person respects the justness struggle, supports our right to reparations and actively works to dismantle the yoke of his white priveledge system off of the rest of the world then as far as i'm concerened...s/he's cool with the times, but if they just complaining about being called crackers and BET and bullshit like that, dont even waist no energy arguing trying make them see no point we got bigger **** to accomplish, ya dig?




RBG 4 Life
stic
dead prez

[www.bossupbu.com]



--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
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Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 09, 2007 06:57PM
GREAT quote Danny!
I hope every1 READS THIS!!!



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 09, 2007 08:06PM
Revolutionary but Gangster
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 10, 2007 12:39AM
For years I've mentioned Dead Prez here: glad someone's finally gettin' it!



Post Edited (09-09-07 17:39)

[www.RealitySounds.com]
[www.SantaCruzReggae.com]

#rastacruzreggae #santacruzreggae #realitysound #reality_sound
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 03:06PM
Big Up Stic Man for the Word Sound Power

Smallaxe
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 05:34PM
*sigh*
...in the 21st century why are we still seeing every little ****ing thing in terms of black & white...if life, people, or politricks were only that simple...excuse me if I don't see the black teachers or even cops in the community as race traitors...not saying that there isn't some truth to much that he's saying, but the sweeping racist overtones capsize the message.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 07:04PM
[sarc] but remember kids: you can't be racist if you're black..... [sarc]
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 07:25PM
...........



Post Edited (09-11-07 12:27)
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 08:42PM
So who pays the reparations? The south? The federal government? The tobacco or cotton industry? Is a check and a smile really going to make a difference? Blaming the entire white population in the US for the goings on in the past is a scapegoat tactic. I agree that there have been many injustices perpetrated on black people in this country, but there has to be a point when a person is responsible for their own future and quality of life.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 09:24PM
i agree i am responsible for my future and my quality of life; i also believe that the life process itself is easier on me due to my white skin; i believe that, although i don't see things in black & white so much anymore, i do still agree the instituional systems in this country still favor white skinned folks. does this mean all whites will advance, and no blacks will? of course not, but rather that the institutional system are not equitable, as yet.

and if reparations are to be paid, i really don't think whites ought to be telling blacks what they should ask for or receive; we lost that right with the slave ships and plantations. do i think that a mere monetary apology will fix a damn thing? NO. but why should the "oppressor" group get to say yes or no to what they have asked for? doesn't make much sense; it certainly is not how i was taught to apologize as a child. i know reparations of this magnitude aren't mere apologies, but no amount of reparations will ever change history and it is also hard to imagine they will fix anything. i probably shouldn't try to make sense where there is very little.

it is certainly a difficult issue with many things to take into consideration, to say the very least, and i hope i didn't offend anyone with my thoughts on the matter. agreed, stamina!, that sweeping generalizations make things more difficult...

m.



* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 09:38PM
Well uh, uh, gee Mistuh Stic, how do we financially ring the cash register
on the great number of white European immigrants(actually, the greatest
% of immigrants from Europe) who got here in steerage AFTER the Civil War?
As alway, be it in America or Darfur, the Devil Is In The Details.

the wholesale misery of the South after the Civil War ran until WW2---we're talking over 75 years. For black folks, in addition to the grating poverty, malnutriton, lack of education, and horrendous lack of medical care with the occasional plague thrown in for good measure that nearly all in the South suffered, there was also murderous racism.

My parents, uneducated and rural, were around 12 when the Great Depression hit. I will always remember what they said: 'well, if there was a Dee-pression
it didn't make no difference to us---we didn't know anyone had money anyway'. My father was his family's cash cow---he was lucky enough to get paid $5 a week as a dusk-to-dawn field hand, 60 plus hours a week. That was 'good money' in Georgia in 1933.

By the way Stic, as a kid, when I asked why everyone around me called themselves
'crackers', I was told it came from what 'city folk' called us, as in cracking a whip at the family mule. Ass-poor white people didn't own slaves---in their ignorance, they often bought the hatred sold them by by the rich white men who profited from their butt-poor white workers mistrusting their butt-poor black counterparts.

I could go on for a while, but I'll end by saying there's some hard truths in what
Mistuh Stic sez, but it's as self-limiting for black people to see things only through the prism of race and past injustice as it is for white people who
make $10 an hour (and no medical, like a bunch of my kin),doing some dead end job but don't get what the game really means for alla' we.



Post Edited (09-11-07 14:43)
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 09:53PM
Good points, I do have a question based on this comment.

"I really don't think whites ought to be telling blacks what they should ask for or receive; we lost that right with the slave ships and plantations. do i think that a mere monetary apology will fix a damn thing? NO. but why should the "oppressor" group get to say yes or no to what they have asked for? doesn't make much sense; it certainly is not how i was taught to apologize as a child."
Was that in response to my question as to who pays the reparations? Or are you just saying that in general. The purpose of my statement was to encourage discusson about the possiblity of where these funds might arise from, not to imply that those who share the same race as the opressor should decide.
Who has learned how to appologize to a race of people that were enslaved? It is beyond an apology. It seems as though many of the actual descendants of the oppressors have never learned this either. I still see Dixie flags around in these times. Maybe Neil Young could help.....
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 09:57PM
" *sigh*
...in the 21st century why are we still seeing every little ****ing thing in terms of black & white..."

Because for white people living "...in the 21st century..." it is "...a little ****ing thing..." from the past that they know about mostly from textbooks, whereas for the negro it is a BIG ****ING DEAL BECAUSE IT IS THE REALITY THAT THEY DEAL W/ ON A DAILY BASIS.

"sigh"


Pale, it seems you're missing the big picture of Stic's piece. He's addressing the whole; the lack of change and lack of any type of redeeming in the white-power-structure that is this society.

Your statement: "I agree that THERE HAVE BEEN many injustices perpetrated on black people in this country..." [emphasis mine] is typical, classic, and representative of what Stic is addressing. THERE IS is the term......THERE IS!!! If Katrina dosen't illustrate the issue, I don't know what else will....
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:23PM
Precedents for Reparations
January 1865. General William T. Sherman promised the slaves "a plot of not more than forty acres of tillable ground" in Special Field Order #15. Three months later, President Andrew Johnson seized the land it had already given to 40,000 blacks in Florida and South Carolina. After making the US a major international trading power over the past 250 years, 4 million men, women, and children across the nation were freed without a cent and without a plot of land.

1974. The Indian Claims Commission decided in 1868 that the US government violated the 5th Amendment when it took land from the Lakota Sioux because it had not paid just compensation. The Commission awarded the Sioux $17.5 million (the estimated “value” of the land at the time it was misappropriated) plus 5% simple interest calculated annually since 1877 - for a total of $122.5 million. US government appealed; Court of Claims reversed the decision.

1978. Congress passed an act enabling the Court of Claims to rehear the case. Sioux argued that they should be
compensated on new grounds - "dishonorable dealings." The Court of Claims found that the US had taken the Black Hills
unconstitutionally and reinstated the $17.5 million plus 5% interest for a total of $122.5 million. The US government appealed.

1980 The US Supreme Court upheld the $122.5 million award. The Sioux then turned down the money, claiming, "The Black Hills are not for sale." Instead, they demanded that the US gov’t return the Black Hills and pay the money as compensation for the billions of dollars in wealth that had been extracted and the damages down while whites illegally occupied the Hills.

1988. Congress allocated $1.2 billion dollars to recompense Japanese Americans interned during WWII.

1994. The Florida legislature approved the payment of $2 million to survivors of the Rosewood race riots of 1923. Based upon evidence that the black settlement of Rosewood was destroyed by a white mob in 1923, Florida found that the state had failed to protect Rosewood residents at the time; the state must pay $150,000 to each of the nine survivors and $500,000 to heirs of Rosewood property owners; and the state would create a $100,000 scholarship fund for black residents.

Late 1990s. The US government reached a consent decree with more than 20,000 black farmers to compensate for years of discrimination by the Department of Agriculture. The compensation was over $1 billion and the judge began his opinion with the phrase: "Forty acres and a mule…"

2002. A complaint was filed on March 26th in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York, naming Aetna Insurance Company and 16 other companies as defendants, alleging past involvement with pre-Civil War slavery and requesting reparations. On July 6, 2005, the defendants won dismissal of the federal lawsuit. In his order, U.S. District Court Judge Norgle said the plaintiffs failed to show any injury done to them that could be traced to the defendants and said too much time had passed since slavery existed to require reparations. He also wrote that the political branches of government, not the courts, should resolve such an issue.

2003. Chicago enacted a city law, the Business, Corporate and Slavery Era Insurance Ordinance, that requires companies doing business with the city to disclose any ties to slavery.

2005. In May, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. confirmed that between 1834-1861, two of its predecessor banks in Louisiana used more than 13,000 slaves as collateral and wound up owning about 1,250 slaves when borrowers defaulted. The bank issued a public apology and established a $5 million scholarship fund for African-American students from Louisiana.

In June, Wachovia - a financial holding company located in Chicago - disclosed that at least two of its predecessor banks were involved with the slave trade before the Civil War. The chairman and CEO, Ken Thompson, issued a press release in which he said he was “deeply saddened” by the discovery and apologized “especially to African-Americans and people of African descent.”
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:23PM
Translucent, I was addressing the past in my comments above, that was why I phrased it as "THERE HAVE". Though you are right, I do miss the big picture of Stic's piece in my everyday life because I am not black.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:28PM
Facts and Figures Related to Slavery
1400s Portuguese began enslaving West Africans

1502 Slave trade to ìNew Worldî officially began when slaves are introduced to the Caribbean with permission from Spain.

1540 About 10,000 African slaves estimated to be exported annually into the West Indies.

1619 About one million African slaves had arrived in South America; the first African slaves arrive in North America - Jamestown.

1637 The first American slave ship sailed for Africa in search of slaves.

1660s The black population of the Caribbean islands outnumbers the white population.

1661 Virginia becomes the first colony to legalize slavery.

1672 Charles II chartered the Royal African Company; between 1672 and 1731, the RAC dominates the world slave market.

1800 Between 10-15 million Africans had forcibly arrived in the Americas - about one-third of the original number who had been kidnapped from their homes. Of these, about 6% - or about 650,000 - actually came to North America.

1807 Slave trading outlawed by the British Parliament - although in practice, slavery had been nonexistent in Britain for 200 years.

1808 Slave trading was abolished in the US, but the system of slavery remained legal.

1810 The 1.1 million slaves in the US constituted almost twice the total number of Africans imported from Africa during the preceding two centuries.

1860 The almost 4 million slaves in the US constituted six times the number of slaves the nation had imported.

1865 Slavery was abolished in the US through passage of the Thirteenth Amendment.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:28PM
Respect Ryder...
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:31PM
1865-1954

Legal Avenues to Institutionalize Racism in the South


1870 Tennessee is first state to enact laws against racial intermarriage. By the turn of the Century, every southern state had enacted such a law.

1875 Tennessee adopts the first “Jim Crow” law segregating blacks from whites on trains, in depots, and on wharves. By end of century, all Southern states had similar laws and had added hotels, barber shops, restaurants, and theaters to the list of segregated public spaces.

1876 US v. Cruikshank and US v. Reese Supreme Court decisions rule that the 14th and 15th Amendments applied only to state actions – “No State shall…deprive any person of life, liberty, or property…nor deny to any person…equal protection of the laws” and the right to vote “shall not be denied…by any State.” Therefore, it was unconstitutional for the federal government to prosecute individuals for violations. Cruikshank rules specifically that the 15th Amendment guaranteed citizens not the right to vote, but only a right not to be discriminated against on account of race, color, or previous condition of servitude.

1883 US Supreme Court declares the Civil Rights Act of 1875 unconstitu-tional. That law banned racial discrimination in all forms of public trans-portation and public accommodations. Decision based on the grounds that the 14th and 15th Amendments only applied to states, not individuals.

1894 Congress repeals the three Force Acts passed between 1870-1871 which had guaranteed punishment for the use of force or intimidation to prevent citizens from voting and imposed heavy penalties on persons who “shall conspire together, or go in disguise…for the purpose… of depriving any person or any class of persons of the equal protection of the laws, or of equal privileges or immunities under the laws.”

1888 Williams v. Mississippi US Supreme Court case holds that state constitutions did not discriminate against blacks when they were disenfranchised by means of property or literacy qualifications, poll taxes, or “grandfather clauses” that enabled registrars to register white voters unable to meet the new requirements.

1898 Plessy v. Ferguson US Supreme Court case held that because “legislation is powerless to eradicate racial instincts,” Southern segregation laws were constitutional, as long as the separate public facilities for blacks were equal to those of whites.

1954 Brown v. Board of Education US Supreme Court case overturns Plessy v. Ferguson, ruling instead that it is unconstitutional to provide “separate but equal” public facilities.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Legacy of the KKK


1. The rise of formally organized, national and statewide Ku Klux Klans has always been brief. The first period lasted from 1866 to 1869; followed by the period of greatest involvement from 1919 to 1926 ; and ending with the most recent period from 1975 to the present.

2. The real power of the KKK has been at the local, rather than national or statewide level. Local KKK’s, often working with spontaneous lynch mobs, have been responsible for almost all Klan related violence over the past 140 years.

3. The most powerful message of KKK has been that terrorism would be tolerated, and even supported, by the community as long as the vigilantes helped to maintain the political, social, and economic status quo of white southerners.

4. This message of Klan legitimacy within white society has kept many local non-white, non-Protestant, and immigrant populations in a perpetual state of fear and terror.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


White Citizen Councils (WCCs)


“Blacks who tried to register to vote, who signed a petition for school desegregation, who belonged to the NAACP, who spoke out for equality received the treatment. Bankers would deny loans; black merchants couldn’t get credit from wholesale houses or sometimes could not get supplies even with cash; insurance policies were canceled; employees were dismissed; renters were evicted from their homes; mortgages were recalled. Blacks dependent on whites for employment or credit were often forced to boycott black ministers or doctors or craftsmen who were violating the racial etiquette…

…[In Yazoo, Mississippi] in the summer of 1955...1,500 of the town’s 11,000 population belonged to the White Citizens’ Council. The council ran an ad in the town paper listing the names of all the petitioners [for school desegregation]. The list of names appeared in the stores, in the bank, even in cotton fields around the city. White community leaders would visit individuals and suggest that their action was not proper for a ‘colored’ who ‘wanted to live in peace.’ If that didn’t work, it would be followed by visits to employers, creditors, and landlords. It was not long before the original list of 53 signators to the petition had been reduced to 6...Similar treatment was given to blacks who sought to register to vote“ (Bloom, 1987:99-100).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spontaneous Vigilante Violence

Afer the Civil War, vigilantes denied freed blacks access to education by burning down school buildings and churches used as schools, flogging teachers or driving them away, and in a few instances, murdering them.• During Reconstruction, in Hinds County, Mississippi, whites killed an average of one black person a day.
During the summer and fall of 1868 in Louisiana, white Democrats killed 1,081 persons, mostly African Americans; in one judicial district in North Carolina, a Republican judge counted 700 beatings and 12 murders.
Between 1882 and 1951, 4,730 documented persons - 70% of whom were black - were executed by lynch mobs in the South.
After WWI, mass attacks by whites wiped out or terrorized black communities in the Florida Keys, in Springfield, Illinois, and in the Arkansas Delta, and were an implicit, ever-present threat to every black neighborhood in the nation. Some small communities in the Midwest and West became “sundown” towns, informally threatening African Americans with death if they remained overnight.
From 1955 to 1958, 530 cases of violence and intimidation perpetrated against individuals who questioned the South’s tradition of segregation.
In 1955, a 14-year-old black teenager visiting Mississippi from Chicago who whistled at a white woman was kidnapped, pistol-whipped, stripped naked, shot through the head, barb-wired to a 74-pound cotton gin fan, and dumped into 20 feet of water in the Tallahatchie River.
During 1961, Freedom Riders were harassed and assaulted throughout the South: white mobs in Anniston, Alabama attacked and burned one bus; racists in Montgomery, Alabama pulled Freedom Riders off the bus and administered brutal beatings; 26 other Freedom Riders in Jackson, Mississippi received 67-day jail sentences for sitting in the whites-only section of the city’s bus depot.
In 1963, routine violence in the South included dozens of cases of police brutality before, during, and after arrests; bombing houses, schools, churches, businesses, and persons known to be involved in integration; fires deliberately set in black businesses, homes of activists, and a youth camp in North Carolina; shootings conducted by police and citizens against voter registration workers, black attorneys, and ordinary citizens during integration rallies; and the assassination of two civil rights leaders, William L. Moore and Medgar Evers.
During the summer of 1963, the US Justice Dept. recorded 758 demonstrations and almost 14,000 arrests in the South.
In the summer of 1964 during the Mississippi Freedom Summer Project, three male volunteers - one black and two whites - were murdered, 1,000 people were arrested, 35 shooting incidents were recorded, 30 homes and other buildings were bombed, 35 churches were burned, 80 people were beaten, and at least six other persons were murdered.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lynching in America


Lynching in America has come to be associated with punishments outside the law that are believed to be a necessary, and even an appropriate, response to two situations:

• When law and order does not exist and people are compelled to take justice into their own hands - frontier justice. When a legal system is put into place, such frontier justice is expected to end.

• When law and order does not satisfy the needs of justice, and thus certain people believe the law can be “rightly” ignored or circumvented.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PHASES OF LYNCHING IN US


First Phase: Pre-Civil War Era. The majority of lynching victims were whites who deviated in some way from the status quo - batterers of wives and children; people who held unpopular political and/or ideological positions; and people who were believed to be different from mainstream society. Lynching slaves was rare for several reasons:

it resulted in the loss of property and profit;
it prohibited planters from being compensated for the loss of their property, so they preferred to have slaves executed within the law so they could be reimbursed; and
it would transfer power over the lives of slaves from the aristocracy to the hands of the mob.

Second Phase: Post-Civil War Era. While lynching still included whites - as well as American Indians, Hispanics, and Asians - the majority of victims were African American and the majority occurred in the South.

Between 1882 and 1968, 4,743 lynchings were recorded, 3,446 of them black men and women.
Mississippi (539 black victims, 42 white) led this grim parade of death, followed by Georgia (492, 39), Texas (352, 141), Louisiana (335, 56), and Alabama (299, 48).



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


“Eight Negroes lynched since last issue of the Free Speech: one at Little Rock, Ark., last Saturday morning where the citizens broke into the penitentiary and got their man; three near Anniston, Ala.; one near New Orleans; and three at Clarksville, Ga., the last three for killing a white man, and five on the same old racket -- the new alarm about raping white women. The same programme of hanging, then shooting bullets into the lifeless bodies was carried out to the letter. Nobody in this section believes the old threadbare lie that Negro men assault white women. If Southern white men are not careful, they will over-reach themselves and public sentiment will have a reaction; a conclusion will then be reached which will be very damaging to the moral reputation of their women.” (Ida Wells, May 21, 1892.)
What was the “conclusion” Wells hints about in her editorial?
What do you think happened to Wells as a result of her editorial?



Several white men in Memphis promised to torture and kill her on sight if she ever set foot in Memphis again. So she moved to New York where she began an all-out anti-lynching campaign. Her case rested on several premises:

The rationale for lynching was built upon an evil mythology of race and gender stereotypes: white women - who were good, pure, virginal, and uninterested in sexual pleasure - needed and deserved protection; African American women - who were bad, wanton, licentious, and promiscuous - did not need or deserve protection; white men - who could not be accused of raping “bad” women - were champions of justice in defense of their women; and African American men who were lustful beasts who could not be trusted in the company of “good” women.
The term rapist more logically applied to white men than to black men. Thus, white men did many things behind a justification of protecting “honor.” The alleged rape of white women, then, was used to justify lynching and other mob violence in order to oppress, terrorize, and control African Americans.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:37PM
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:44PM
respect Trans....
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:44PM
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:47PM
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 10:51PM
Ignorance, like racism, is a disease. A genetic disease, passed on from one generation to the next.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:05PM
paleryder--that was addressing the subject of monetary reparations, but really in general. where would this money come from? i surely do not know; i am not an economist nor a politrician. i believe that if we can fund wars of every different stripe at every level, we can afford reparations.

sorry to be so general in my thinking, but i'm no expert. i am just trying to express my opinion on the subject, in as few words as possible, since i am at work. decidely not the best way to discuss something as complex as this. it just feels wrong to have a white congress or whatever decide what or how the reparations be made. hope that clarifies.

respect for the conversation,
m.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:07PM
Here's some more recent photos Jeff...what should the reparations be for the descendants of these people?






Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:18PM
Weren't they given a whole country Herb?

Peace
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:21PM
Jewish Reparations Bill

[www.directblackaction.com]



Post Edited (09-11-07 16:23)
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:27PM
Reparations Agreement Between Israel and West Germany

[en.wikipedia.org]

Claims Conference Victory

[www.claimscon.org]
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:27PM
Not that money can replace having to grow up without parents Herb, but my parents got paid reparations for what happened to their parents, and that only happened some 65 years, as oppossed to slavery....

Now, who gwan pay for this one.....?

Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 11, 2007 11:48PM
"i believe that if we can fund wars of every different stripe at every level, we can afford reparations."

we CAN'T AFFORD wars........ they are currently being financed by the world bank and is driving our country even deeper into debt......we are spending our kids kids kids kids kids money right now in the endless "war on terror" as they call it.........
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 12:08AM
>>Weren't they given a whole country Herb?
INDEED...

>>Peace
This.

Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 12:12AM
(don't remember where I found this, sometimes I find articles, and forget the source)

-Indian Treaties and the Removal Act of 1830-
The story of westward expansion by European Americans is a basic theme of the American experience, but it is also a history Indian removal from their traditional lands. Indians lost their lands through by purchase, war, disease and even extermination, but many transfers of Indian land were formalized by treaty. The Constitution of 1789 empowered Congress to "regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian tribes. Federal policy regarded each tribe as a sovereign entity capable of signing binding treaties with the United States government. In the first 40 years of the new republic, the United States signed multiple treaties with Indian tribes which usually followed a basic pattern: the signatory tribe withdrew to a prescribed reservation and in return the Federal Government promised to provide supplies, food, and often an annuity. In 1830, Congress chose to disregard Indian treaty guarantees when it passed the Indian Removal Act, a bill engineered by President Andrew Jackson. Despite its language suggesting a voluntary and fair "exchange" of lands, the act opened the door for the militias of trans-Appalachian and southern states to simply drive the Indians across the Mississippi by force. The Indians destination was to be an "Indian Territory" set aside west of Iowa, Missouri, and Arkansas.

The Cherokee nation resisted, however, challenging in court the Georgia laws that restricted their freedoms on tribal lands. In its 1831 ruling on Cherokee Nation v. the State of Georgia, the Supreme Court addressed the question of whether native tribes could be treated as "foreign nations." It decided that they should be counted rather as wards of the federal government, but the following year ruled that they were indeed sovereign and immune from Georgia laws. President Jackson, famous from his "Seminole Wars" against the Indians in Georgia and Florida and an ardent defender of states' rights, nonetheless refused to heed the court's decision. He obtained the signature of a Cherokee chief agreeing to relocation in the Treaty of New Enchola, which Congress ratified against the protests of Daniel Webster and Henry Clay in 1835. The Cherokee signing party did not represent the vast majority of Cherokees. When the followers of Principal Chief John Ross tried desperately to hold onto their land, Jackson ordered military action in 1838. Under the guns of federal troops and Georgia state militia, the Cherokee tribe made their trek to the dry plains across the Mississippi. Thousands died en route from the brutal conditions of the "Trail of Tears."

The United States government's inability and unwillingness to abide by its treaty obligations with Indian tribes was clearly related to an insatiable demand for cheap land for European settlers. To make matter more difficult, Indians generally had a different concept of land ownership than Europeans, emphasizing land use for hunting, farming, or dwelling for the tribe, but not recognizing the concept of individual ownership. Indian society was loose, decentralized, democratic, and non-authoritarian where "chiefs" were often men of respect and informal authority, but not designated by the tribe to make decisions. The result was that treaties were often signed with Indian leaders who did not have the authority of the tribe. Whether the system of Indian treaties were ever meant to work is a matter of debate, but in reality, most Indian treaties were broken.



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 01:03AM
I'm still not quite sure what your point is Herb. No one is denying the Jewish Holocust, and no one is minimizing the tragedy either, but the thread is in regards to the African Holocust, and it does indeed seem that some here want to minimize the tragedies, or the possible need for reparations.

Also, lynching took place well into the 60's Herb, if you want to compare dates, but I don't. I just want some here to be aware that there is no minimizing the importance of our own history, and what a HUGE role African slavery played in it.

Any thoughts on why reparations have been paid to Jews but not Blacks?

Peace Herb!
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 01:16AM
HighGrade1--i fully agree; we cannot afford wars. i guess if we can "afford" wars, by the same (il)logic, we can afford reparations, was what was implied, that having "no funds" shouldn't cut it in this case if it certainly doesn't cut it in war matters.

but again, i am in much agreement about the inability to afford these wars.

m.



* [www.kboo.fm]
* [www.shocksofsheba.podomatic.com]
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 01:25AM
Stamina, i would have to agree with you.
i do understand where Stic is coming from, but he starts out his essay with a generalization of "white people". Stic already has a negative impression about me. I'm a 15th generation american & my ancestors never owned slaves. This system has not done me any favors, it's fukked me over numerous times. His generalizations are like saying that "all black people are in gangs." When he says every president has been a "white rich male", what else do you expect from a 231 year old country founded by whites? Every president has to be rich. We WILL have black presidents. It just takes time. Writing essays like Stic only makes things worse. He is continuing to SEPARATE black & white.

Some blacks complain about growing up in the projects, while they make fun of whites living in trailer parks.

Some blacks complain that they are the only ones in poverty & suffering from the system. There are so many poor white families suffering in this country also.

Why doesn't Justin Timberlake write an essay about how a lot of non-whites get involved with gang violence. Gangs are a bigger problem nowadays than slavery.

The fact is that racism in this country is dying. There is still plenty left, but it will continue to decline. Once the older generations die off, a lot of racism will die also. This country is changing. As fukked up as this country still is, you have to give it credit for improving in the last 231, 142, & 42 years. (wish i could say the same of our world policy, but thats a whole other subject). If I was black, I would rather live here than in Liberia, Rwanda, Sudan, or Somalia.
No more SEPARATION. Time to move forward.

Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 01:37AM
Leykis-101 wrote:

> The fact is that racism in this country is dying.

While you make some interesting points in your post, I'm not sure the idea that racism is dying is necessarily true. One thing I witness on a regular basis is racism against those of middle eastern decent, and I witness that both from older people and younger people even more-so. Peace



Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 01:54AM
racism is primitive, of course it will continue to decline just like religion in this country.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 02:55AM
seen.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 03:06AM
"racism is primitive, of course it will continue to decline"

Easy to say as a white male in this society...
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 03:16AM
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 05:01AM
As always, whatever else anyone may say about the comments here,
they represent some serious thought by the people in this musical community about what the history of all this f*****y has done(and is still doing) to people.
And everything, everything negative that is historic fact that
Stic mentions needs to be mentioned again, and again.
And put in the face of a lot of people until they acknowledge that
reality.

Having, through circumstance, seen this reality from the time
of being a youth so long ago, at this point I just want to hear the agenda for positivity and progress. I want to see the young activists today witness change in their life, as I have. If that sounds naive, I'm not, because if I had not seen change for the better, I'd have been so negative I couldn't have gotten anything done or had any faith in the future. I'll take anger over apathy any time,
any time.

I remember in the 60s driving thru Mississippi ,and seeing the names of Freedom Riders etched into the sides of hills, as you drove down
below Vicksburg to the Mississippi. I remember feeling electric in anticipation
from seeing those names, in that place. Like Malcolm said, by any means necessary, this battle of Good over Evil.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 05:13AM
eloquently said



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 05:15AM
I HIGHLY recommend this film:





_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 05:18AM
....and this novel as well...





_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 05:58AM
There was definitely truth in what he had to say, but like most public figures he let the propagandist tone get in the way. And the part about black teachers & police being 'race traitors' was hilarious.



Post Edited (09-11-07 23:02)
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 06:26AM
Ruffneck, stellar choices both---'Invisible Man' was some hypnotic/dream
reading when I first found it, with passages I had to re-read over and over.
Imagine how his readership waited decades for him to finish his next novel---
it came out posthumously,unedited by Ellison. 'Invisible Man' : A great, great novel(it was also a book I was greatly given to picking up again, in my teen-aged mania for turning pages, after having taken a draw---the narrator's grasp of time/space had a definite ganja flavor , at a time when there wasn't so much being written with and of such a 'high' quality).

That Spike Lee movie makes a whole lotta folks, black and white, itch and get uncomfortable in their respective skins----I loved it, and also his under-rated
'School Daze', that put class tensions in black America front and center, to the discomfort of more than a few who saw it. The way 'Bamboozled' uses the USA's oldest form of original entertainment(minstrelry) as commentary on black & white society today is (again) something a lot of American have neither the honesty or humor to face. I'd like to see Spike do 'Bamboozled 2: Rappin & Tappin' ,
w/ the current state of thug-rap as subject matter. Could be sweet.



Post Edited (09-11-07 23:27)
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 03:04PM
"what should the reparations be for the descendants of these people?"

Come on Herb, give yourself a break now..... seriously...

This thread discusses the struggle ot the US GOVERNMENT & ITS' CITIZENS, not the history-old plight of a landless people and the last state to persecute them.

Your comparinson of Israel & Liberia is ludicrous.

I feel that, intelectually, you must know the difference, but you are too emotionally attached and end up coming across w/ a my-struggle-is-holier-than-thou attitude, whether you realize or not.

Let it go man, let it go......those are oranges & apples.....
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 06:48PM
and in other celebrity revolutionary news, this just in:

famous black man "defends" hapless "exploited" whitey while complaining of being "played" himself. who would have ever thunk that "show business" would be so exploitative???

KAYNE WEST FAULTS MTV IN SPEARS' FIASCO

Kanye West blames MTV for Britney Spears' less than stellar performance at the Video Music Awards.

"Man they were just trying to get ratings, and they knew she wasn't ready, and they exploited her," the rapper said Tuesday on Sirius Satellite Radio's "The Morning Mash Up".

Tne network made a "bad move" by having the troubled pop star open Sunday's event in Las Vegas, said West, 29, who feels *he* should have kicked off the show.

(ah now we're getting to the crux of the matter...its all about them exploiting her but also theres that part about how he deserved to be exploited instead)

"They exploited her, they played me," he said.

Spears, 25, looked unprepared while performing her new song, "Gimme More." She seemed nervous and, at times, stopped singing altogether.

West said he wanted to perform "Stronger," the first single from his new album, on the show's main stage - where R&B hotshot Chris Brown wowed the crowd with Michael Jackson-esque dance moves - but complied when he was asked to host a suite party.

West said it was a blow to his ego when Justin Timberlake ended up "on the big stage" to give the closing performance with Timbaland and Nelly Furtado. West reportedly threw a tantrum backstage after losing in all five categories for which he was nominated.

end news item.


see i just think all these entertainers with revolutionary thoughts are sucking from the same teat they are deriding...the same teat that gives them the soapbox they use so well. i would like to know what kind of car this guy from a band named after *money* drives. probably not a yugo...thats my guess. and i would also guess that if he and his buddies were on top they wouldnt have a problem exploiting those beneath them...their only real problem with the system is they dont run it.

in other totally unrelated news, ernie b was quoted in todays Sacramento Bee because evidently he lives right near where the police killed a "harmless" person, who had been drunk for days, after he pointed what may turn out to be a BB gun at the cop. maybe im the only one in the world who was taught that typically things get worse when you point a gun, BB or not, at the police. ernies only published comment was something along the lines of: nothing like this happens around here...this aint kingston you know.

one love
jah bill
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 06:59PM
he drives a Colt Vista
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 08:05PM
JB, I carefully taught my son thru the years to not only be nonconfrontational when it comes to those street officials ('cops') who carry guns and have the legal right to FIRE THEM in his direction, but to not even point-his-finger at dem. Now that he's a bartender/door security worker at an urban club w/ a 20-something/hip-hop clientele, he overstands that DOUBLE.

And Brother Stic, I've always preached that life-reality to my boy, whose considered 'white', although his mama's father was Puerto Rican...
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 08:54PM
>That Spike Lee movie makes a whole lotta folks, black and white, itch and get uncomfortable in their respective skins----I loved it,

While we're on the topic of books and movies that make your skin crawl, try this one:





Ever Forward
Empress
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 09:03PM
Blessed,

How can we be expected to turn the other cheek when this is happening, STILLL!!!???!?!?!?!?

[www.freethejena6.org]

RASTAFARI



Only a system which tolerates dissent can survive
-H.I.M.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 09:06PM
Empress, that one is still well-potent, and came the year Marcus Garvey passed,
1940. Think about it...67 years ago, Richard Wright still gets under our skin.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 09:25PM
>>> How can we be expected to turn the other cheek when this is happening, STILLL!!!???!?!?!?!?

or this >>> [www.msnbc.msn.com]



--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 12, 2007 10:46PM
Some straight up f****** small town racist dealings down in Louisiana
I would say, going right on in 2007. Stamina, who can blame de yout' in their anger who see these things still so blatantly going on??
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 04:54AM
"'Invisible Man' was some hypnotic/dream
reading when I first found it, with passages I had to re-read over and over.
Imagine how his readership waited decades for him to finish his next novel---
it came out posthumously,unedited by Ellison. 'Invisible Man' : A great, great novel(it was also a book I was greatly given to picking up again, in my teen-aged mania for turning pages, after having taken a draw---the narrator's grasp of time/space had a definite ganja flavor , at a time when there wasn't so much being written with and of such a 'high' quality). "


This is REAL HIGH quality literature. It is written in a HIGHLY abstract manner.
My introduction to the book was as assigned reading for an 11th grade honors english course.
My teacher assured me I was the only one mature enough for the assignment, and none of the other students had the challenge of reading "Invisible Man".
I AM sure I had to read it over several times, it can be VERY difficult to comprehend at times. One of my favorite parts:

The old man in the paint factory who INSISTS HE is the reason the company's white paint is so white. His secret, he puts the smallest amount of black paint which makes it appear so white.
MAKES SENSE TO ME!



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 06:08AM




_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 03:56PM
Thanx for the flyer; wish I could make...
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 04:11PM
Haven't seen Dead Prez LIVE yet....

A friend sez when he saw 'em in Hollyweird, not only was it an OFF THA HOOK show, the crowd was REALLY into it, a lot of UNITY is how he described it.
Even tho, we like that REBEL sheit....he said it was more about showin RESPECT than anythang else...

LARGE UP the DEAD PREZ Massive!



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 04:21PM
>His secret, he puts the smallest amount of black paint which makes it appear so
>white.

if you want to make white super white, put a tiny bit of blue in it. thats why laundry detergent is often blue.

sorry for the digression...

one love
jah bill
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 06:13PM
Yeah, me neither man. That's why I really wish I could catch them in SF...

...been a fan for many years...

...Dead Prez is LAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...

"...so real that the radio will never play
but that's cool, the enemy is suppose to hate
freedom ain't gonna come till we regulate..."

Here is a great interview w/ Stic :



Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 06:34PM
I have read and reread Brother Stic's speech (it seems like more of a fragment of the whole speech) -- it's like an annoying splinter that I can't quite remove. The reason I keep going back to it is that it is so right... and so wrong.

He is on the money when he says that "... want the rest of us to ignore what their representitives [sic] have done and are still doing to the rest of the world". Where he goes wrong, in my opinion, is that he lays the blame on "white people". His speech is laced with these gross generalities and that, I feel, obfuscates many of the points he is trying to make. When you try to paint a complex picture with too broad of a brush, many of the crucial details are lost.

On the subject of reparations, there is wide global precedent for paying reparations to provide redress to oppressed people or to compensate a people for wars of aggression and racism.

For the record, reparations are a must. The money must come from the US government, who can find money to wage war anywhere, anytime. To attempt to compensate the victims of past racist policies, the US government has paid reparations to:

- Native Americans for the unjust takeover of the Black Hills in the Dakota territories.
- US citizens of Japanese descent for their unjust interment during WWII.
- Black farmers for their unjust treatment at the hands of the US Dept of Ag.
(respect to J_72 for listing these in a previous post)

As we evolve as a species, if we do not exterminate ourselves through the shortsighted use of technology, I wonder if we can ever get past this distinction we have made and continue to make over the shade of our epidermis. What a silly criterion to use to divide ourselves. It is infinitesimally insignificant. Skin is, at it's thickest, 1.5mm thick -- get past that and I wouldn't be able to tell David Bowie from H. Rap Brown.

In the 21st century, we must acknowledge that most of our differences are cultural differences. These differences have their basis on more factors than just racial differences -- religion and economic factors are cleaves that divide us more severely than race, but I believe that, in many cases, economic and religious oppression is oversimplified and mis-identified as racial oppression.

What will it take to move past racial distinctions in our global society?

Colonial powers that have oppressed the peoples of their colonies must make restitution to them. Justice demands this. Economic power structures must be reformed so that people of all cultures have equal access to prosperity and security. This will not be easy for those who hold power do not want to relinquish it. Violent rebellion may be required to "level the playing field". Until this happens, economic oppression of the poor (peoples and nations) will continue.

Cultural divisions, mostly mistaken as racial divisions, must be addressed by respecting all peoples and cultures. The insecurities that provoke people to seek out and oppress "different" people must be eliminated, regardless of whether that difference is epidermal color, sexual preference, economic status, religious affiliation, etc.

It is time for mankind to take the next step in the evolutionary cycle. It is time, past time, to lay aside the things that divide us, the thought patterns that hold us back. For white people, black people, the brown, red, and yellow people; for all people to give up what Tosh called the "slavish mentality" that prevents us from coming together as humans to address the problems that threaten us with extinction. To quote Marcus Garvey, "If you cannot do it, if you are not prepared to do it...then you will die."

Peace,
-RV



Peace,
-RV
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 06:44PM
Good Points RV....
this is also a good point:

"as long as a white person respects the justness struggle, supports our right to reparations and actively works to dismantle the yoke of his white priveledge system off of the rest of the world then as far as i'm concerened...s/he's cool with the times, but if they just complaining about being called crackers and BET and bullshit like that, dont even waist no energy arguing trying make them see no point we got bigger **** to accomplish, ya dig? "



_________________
We cannot seek achievement for ourselves and forget about progress and prosperity for our community. Our ambitions must be broad enough to include the aspirations and needs of others, for their sakes and for our own.
Cesar Chavez
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 07:21PM
.



--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 13, 2007 09:45PM
RV, respect...


The worldwide struggle in this time is definately a CLASS struggle. However, class is LARGELY based on "race". So for a brother like Stic it becomes the focus of his works. Is he just as much a victim of the system's divide & conquer as the next guy? No doubt, but he's taking a stand for "his people" first & foremost, despite the fact that it fullfills a strategy of the shitstem to a certain extent.

MLK embodied the notion of crossing "racial" barriers, but his works were geared toward uplifting "his people" first, and though he didn't verbalize it that way, he had to fight the "white power" structure to achieve his ends.

Stic's tone may be "racial", but so was Malcom's. And even after his pilgrimage Malcom continued to fight the "white power" structure, though he used a more moderate tone.

I think that it comes down to being much easier for people outside their circunstances to say: "Leave 'race' behind", but for those deeply submerged in it by virtue of birth, this IS the issue; they can't possibly "leave it behind".

Stic's tone is an expression of his life experience and the identity that emerged out of it. His identity is everything to him. It's his religion, w/ the exception that he didn't chose it, he just embraced it. Call it Blackianity.

Bless
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:00PM
'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me' - in those who harbour such thoughts, hatred will never cease.

'He abused me, he beat me, he defeated me, he robbed me' - in those who do not harbour such thoughts, hatred will cease.


The Dhammapada
Chapter I (The Twin-Verses)
Verses III & IV

Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:08PM
As rain breaks through an ill-thatched house, passion will break through an un-reflecting mind.

As rain does not break through a well-thatched house, passion will not break through a well-reflecting mind.


The Dhammapada
Chapter I (The Twin-Verses)
Verses XIII & XIV

Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:11PM
Word up Forest!

The Dhammapada & the Tao Te Ching are my favorite books, and life companion. Infinite Wisdom...
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:14PM
"The one who lives mindfully, senses under control,
Moderate in eating, devout, energetic,
Cannot be overthrown by Mara (temptation),
Just as the wind cannot shake a rocky mountain"
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:25PM
He who lives looking for pleasures only, his senses uncontrolled, immoderate in his food, idle, and weak, Mara will certainly overthrow him, as the wind throws down a weak tree.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 05:50PM
Jeff, Tranny, papa etc...
I was just attempting to make the point that:

"Every man thinketh his burden is the heaviest"

The demonization of ANY race or class of people is the most harmful and pernicious habit of mankind. I will NOT forward that philosophy no matter from where or whom it comes. End of story.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 06:20PM
True Herb, when all is said and done...so true.

Peace Man
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 06:21PM
Yes Stam. Your hammer hits the head of the nail.

And, we both get the anger of those younger than us who should not
be expected to accept the kind of crap still going on now, the sort of
outrage we saw when younger that made some of those around us go
'Now, Why is he so upset?? He has a bad attitude!' You remember.

Time's getting shorter, some youths are getting hotter.
Re: Stic from DEAD PREZ
September 14, 2007 10:05PM
agreed papa. For example the whole Jena 6 shituation looks like something out of the Jim Crow days with its de facto racial segregation, boneheaded administrators and simpleminded police officials. The fact that it's making national news would tend to make me hope it's the exception and not the rule in this country (although in that neck of the deep south, who knows). Definitely something to get hotter about. What disturbs me is that these youth are for the most part carrying forth the bigotry of their parents. The vicious cycle must be broken!

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