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Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts

Posted by FLEXIMIX 
Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 15, 2010 09:17PM

I wonder why it is that there is no other music genre which suffers from chronic no shows, cancellations & on site problems (late starts etc) as does reggae music?

It does seem like there is a shortage of really professional management teams with experienced, and well-connected managers handling reggae artistes.

I wonder if this could be part of the issue as reggae & dancehall artistes often are 'managed' by very inexperienced figures like girlfriends, wives, bredrins, cousins etc.
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 15, 2010 10:46PM
The artists often not very professional themselves. There are of course exceptions and they are the ones you see in town the most often.
BMC
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 15, 2010 11:15PM
I also very much dislike the trend of shows that are known to start at an impossible hour to begin with (i.e. organization plans it that way). In Amsterdam the last year or so they've been organizing shows in a venue called The Sand, which have opening times from around 9:00 pm to 5:00 am, with show time for the more relevant artists closer to the 5:00 mark than the 9:00. I don't even go there cause I know this is the case (and everytime I've been proven right by attending people) and call me weak or whatever you want, but I am not gonna wait 'til 3 in the morning for some artist to get on stage.

Same goes for sound-sessions of King Shiloh in Amsterdam North. Often wicked guests and all, but only getting interesting by the time I'd wish to be back home (say 1:00 or 2:00).

A so it go, solution is easy, don't go, what is exactly what I do. So not always due to the artists or managers, but organization can be part of it too.
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 12:27AM
"I wonder if this could be part of the issue as reggae & dancehall artistes often are 'managed' by very inexperienced figures like girlfriends, wives, bredrins, cousins etc."


i think spear and joseph hill's wives do a good job managing, but they are def. the exception.
a
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 12:37AM
And why hasn't some entrepreneur in JA put together a professional management company that can put a reliable face to these artists?

James - come in.....

Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 12:44AM
Dubguy wrote:

> And why hasn't some entrepreneur in JA put together a
> professional management company that can put a reliable face to
> these artists?
>
> James - come in.....
>

the problem isn't always the management. Reggae artists are some of the most unprofessional people one can deal with. Not all of them, but a large portion. Doing things like abandoning contractual obligations last minute because they found better deals, or becuase the shows weren't packed like they thought they should be, forgetting or lying about other contractual agreements, or a variety of other ridiculous reasons. Granted I haven't been in the reggae business a very long time, but the amount of turnover of promoters, producers, etc... is quite astonishing. So many artists are so miserable to deal with that most people just give up, often having lost far more money than they'll ever make back on reggae music. You can have the greatest management in the world, but unless your going to put a gun to someone's head and escort them to the show, you can't really force someone to show up or show up on time - the artist has to bare some responsibility in the end, too often artists want to look like the victims blaming everything in their careers on other people



Post Edited (02-15-10 16:46)

Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 12:53AM
... I would add that promoters that put up with those kind of actions make the whole thing worse. As long as the industry in the US is not profit driven you will continue to have professional managers and promoters running away from the business. The money is made elsewhere and then done for the "love of it". In every other section of the music industry the artist is asked to do it "for the love of it" as long if not longer than the promoter & club.



Post Edited (02-15-10 16:55)
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 12:53AM
i also think Jamaicans are night owls. in NYC they don't start getting thinking about going out until midnite or later. dances run til 8am i saw that in JA as well.
that just doesn't jive with the american workday alarm clock awaiting the next day.
a
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 01:02AM
its only been in the past decade that this no-show business has become more the norm in california, at least nor cal. even just 10 years ago, shows in the bay area went on 95% of the time and last minute cancellations or just plain no shows were not very common, at least in my experience. i think a lot more flakes have entered the "business" if you can call it that. its one of the reasons i rarely take anyone not familiar with the reggae music model to reggae shows anymore, they just get bored and when the main artist finally comes on, assuming they show at all, its late and its been a long night of listening to some luke warm warmup band and/or some lame ass dj screaming on a too loud system playing 30 second snatches of noise. most never care to come back. there are some professional venues and promoters that dont let that happen but more and more its out of even their hands.

you got to have grit, not to mention not expecting much, to be a live performance fan these days.


one love
jah bill
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 01:06AM
True of most W. Indians Adam, when I lived in the bay area I'd go to parties hosted by Caribbean people, show up at what I considered to be fashionably late, like a bit before midnight, and the door would open & the place would be empty with the host and hostess scurrying around still preparing food, or even still in their drawers.

That being said, this is the USA, and if you want to make a living here with your music, you have to cater to the hours kept by the crowds here. If that means starting earlier, that's what you need to do. Nocturnal habits of Jamaicans shouldn't have anything to do with that, unless they're catering to a strictly Jamaican crowd. I don't recall Bob Marley ever coming onstage after midnight in the US. So yes, it can be done.

Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 01:10AM
You'd think their internal clocks wouldn't mind a bit on the west coast...

Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 02:11AM
Another factor that makes promoting reggae difficult is that many if not most artists are totally delusional about how many people they draw. THey will play at a festival and then assume that when they do a club date they will draw 1000 people, when 100 is more realistic. Especially artists who haven't released much quality music in 20 years and have no publicist or label keeping their name fresh with the public.
Don't get me wrong , these are mostly artists that I have great respect for on a musical level. But often it is not a business approach that rewards more than one show.
Good management would help a lot, but the type of management that is trying to build a career , not just squeeze as much money out of one tour as they can.
Every week at my club, the club upstairs books indie rock and electronica acts. Most of them are on respected indie labels, they often get write ups in the paper, play on college radio, blogs, etc. Way more press than I can ever get for a reggae artist. They charge far less than reggae acts generally. THey also show up on time for sound check and for the gig , and come back on tour again regularly, trying to build a career.
Many reggae acts do tour often , but I'm not always inclined to book someone twice and kill myself trying to make a couple bucks on an act that doesn't draw but charges as if it does.
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 02:16AM
Although I have made quite a lot of money for the club I promote at , I'm quite certain that I stop doing it there is no way they will continue to book the type of artists I book. Maybe Eek A Mouse and Sister Carol twice a year or something.
THey just wouldn't bother dealing with the aggravation, doubletalk, inflated fees, no shows, 20 phone calls in 2 days,etc.
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 02:41AM
<> MYKAL ROSE <>
<> DUBTONIC KRU <>
<> DANTE'S <-> 1 SW 3RD <>
<> THURSDAY FEB 25 <-> 21 + <-> 9 PM <>
- promoter assures this show will go on -




--
blessid love
ras danny
higher reasoning reggae time
KBOO Portland, Full Strength Community Radio
*Love is a net that catches hearts like fish.*
-Muhammad Ali
*I don't like reggae, I love it*
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 03:57AM
YEah - found this from that rosereggae.com link: [www.kingsmusicinternational.com]

As Jah Bill points out - the sites a wreck (I'm guessing the same folks put both together). The layout LOOKS nice, but not very functional. 3 contact links on the front page and not a one actually gives you any contact info? Good luck booking acts, especially when the Rose tour is evaporating, and not a mention anywhere on the site.

I also can't help but notice a RR link on that site (that also goes nowhere) - not a good sign.

Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 04:19AM
Ras James hit it as well as echodelic.
This business is probably the most unprofessional of any style of music. We have been making moves to do allot more than Reggae. I love producing shows and we have been doing it for a bit in a more professional manner than most. We have worked with artist that are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame that have given me far less headache than most reggae artist. Its very frustrating. I always get the line "its for the music" Yes that is part of what drives us to do what we do but this is also a business and "doing it for the music" won't pay a bill or help one run a successful business.

This is why I'd rather work with only handful of reggae artist. I'd rather deal with a real agent at a real agency and deal with proper management than even think of getting a artist from someone "down yard" any day. This is a business and to many times reggae artist don't treat it that way.

Don't get me wrong its not only the artist and there management. There is a ton of slap dick wanna be promoters out there that make it really difficult for the honest and professional promoters.

Ras Danny that's a pretty bold statement for the promoter to be guaranteeing Mrose appearance. Mrose agent has not communicated with me at all that he will be there. He tells me we need to "pray" he will get in the country. This will most likely be the last time I book a show with him.
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 05:47AM
if it comes down to "praying" then its a lost cause. i feel your pain and appreciate you going out on a limb to book these shows when mostly what you get is this "its for the music" bs...if its for the music then why doesnt the artist appear for free? obviously thats not gonna happen but i have to laugh when i hear that from supposedly professional people. like i mentioned in the other post, i wonder if that promoter up north wants to take bets on whether he will show or not.

the other thing is, as i believe daniel pointed out, a work visa is good for a year. rose was in the states working in june and its not been a year since then, so theoretically his visa should still be good. aside from the (likely i guess) possibility that the visa got yanked for some reason, it all sounds like a smokescreen to me.

hopefully you didnt send an advance on the show because from the looks of it, thats probably money down the crapper at this point.

one love
jah bill
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 06:42AM
Well said Dan. The business needs some new blood, sensible, ohnest and educated folks. The Reggae community shouldn't have to rely on people that resort to turning their phone off and praying when the **** has hit the fan! Communication no matter what is the key!! Hope thing's turn out good for you!!!
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 09:12AM
I wonder why it is that there is no other music genre which suffers from chronic no shows, cancellations & on site problems (late starts etc) as does reggae music?

I'm sure that there are some more genres which have the same situation...

Roy
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 03:21PM
What really drives me nuts is when shows start late, then they have a non-stop parade of completely talentless local acts coming on stage. The headline artsist finally comes on stage 15 minutes before closing time. That happens all too often.

There are certain venues that we will no longer go to just for that reason.

There are also certain promoters that we avoid because they seem to encourage this.



Post Edited (02-16-10 07:22)

What divides us is an illusion made up by men in their confusion.

- Ziggy
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 03:34PM
Agreed Roy!

Julian, what makes you so sure?

Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 06:03PM
lets face it.. black people are inherently unorganized people. many will dismiss this reply and cowardly react with their own "you're racist" reply. but their personal reaction is the one i am publically stating.

it takes jews and whites(italians) to organize the business side.

been this way since inception..

black people worked the front end.. whites/jews worked the backend.


it took jerry heller to boost NWA.
it took chris blackwell to boost bob marley.
it took jewish/itallian backers of motown to boost berry gordy(jewish roots)

everyone has their part.. as the saying goes.
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 06:05PM
the late starts are what kills me...check that...the late starts when you know the house closes down by 230. How can you come on stage at 120 when you know the stage show will be done by 2am???? To me that is a scam. This is often times advertised as an "original JA Stage Show". Out west this should be translated as "a bunch of local acts for most of the night and then for the last 45 minutes the headliners will play. To me it is simple. Don't go to JA and expect to play a show from 930 to 1130. Most people won't even have left the house......When you come out west don't start a show at 1 when you know the place closes at 2. That is basically charging everyone in the house 20 bones an hour to see you rock. That is WACK. The only crew I have seen come in and play when they were supposed to is the Marley's. Then again that was far too packaged. I guess we need balance in the force.
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 06:19PM
<QUOTE - Julian>

I'm sure that there are some more genres which have the same situation... <END QUOTE>



I'm not so sure about this, as 'back in the day' I witnessed a lot of crazy stuff on the punk scene with highly dysfunctional people totally out of control on drugs, booze & their own craziness - yet, bands tended to make sure they did their gigs without fail, even if that meant totally cr*p conditions, playing in some total dive for $10 and a pizza.

In the music World, I don't think it gets more dysfunctional than drug-addled punk rock bands. Yet, compared to reggae artists - these guys were running like a Swiss clock when it came to behavior concerning shows.

I think there is a question of attitude which others have brought up here..

I've oft been surprised by stories of down & out artistes, sitting unemployed in the harshest ghetto or on their girlfriend's/wife's couch eating cereal all day & watching soaps - yet having to be dragged off practically kicking & screaming to a gig or turning down work because the fee's not considered worthy enough... you'd think there'd be a bit more hunger to go out there & build something up career-wise, but maybe not...

An interesting comment in some Island DVD I saw was Chris Blackwell on Marley's work ethic which in his (Blackwell's) view was influenced by Marley's rural upbringing so he'd seen the concept of putting in hard work for future gain, whereas the city lads (meaning Tosh & Bunny) were more obsessed only with money / short term gain as their learning 'model', since in such a World view money is what makes things happen.



Post Edited (02-16-10 10:23)

www.myspace.com/twilightcircus
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 07:22PM
Stoners with bankrolls posing as "promoters."
Friends of artist posing as "management."
Artists posing as the "second coming."

Obviously this is not an across-the-boards reality but all too often our beloved "business" is plagued by at least one of the above, endangering the whole.



Ever Forward
Empress
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 07:30PM
Exactly what Empress said. Love the Stoners with bankrolls!!! Thats dead on
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 07:45PM
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 08:11PM
Empress, on a subject oft' discussed here, today YOU take the prize for most succinct analysis.

Years & years gone since I learned a considerable amount of hair-tearing frustration could be avoided by not booking shows. I can recall making a few phone calls back in the mid 80s to confirm a rumor I had heard from yard, THEN
calling the booking agency(a well-heeled, major Nashville country industry name)
and informing THEM there was no way the tour they were planning w/ Culture, Tenor Saw, & Lloyd Parks would occur---Parks & Company were gonna be in Europe for those dates. This simply floored the agent, Scott Faragher, who was used to the cut-&-dried/RATIONAL way of doing music bookings. By the way, he later devoted an interesting chapter on Jamaican music in his tell-all
account, Music City Babylon; he was quite taken with reggae @ the time, and tells about being floored by the Itals, who were discribed as 'if the Temptations were from the Twilight Zone'...

I only mention this because it so well shows the 'left hand doesn't know what the right hand does' mentality in this area of the music bizness. Ain't nuthin' changed in the last 25 years from what ol' me can see...
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 08:53PM
Flexmix wrote:
>An interesting comment in some Island DVD I saw was
>Chris Blackwell on Marley's work ethic which in his (Blackwell's)
>view was influenced by Marley's rural upbringing so he'd seen
>the concept of putting in hard work for future gain, whereas the
>city lads (meaning Tosh & Bunny) were more obsessed only with
>money / short term gain as their learning 'model', since in such
>a World view money is what makes things happen.

That is bullshit for a number of reasons. Among them, both Tosh and Bunny grew up in the country just as long as bob did.

the fact really is, unprofessionalism is what's killing the reggae business. And although there's many offenders, the biggest are the artists themselves. Reggae artists seem to have an amazing skill for taking advantage of the people around them and then blaming them when things go wrong. I've never seen a business where so many grown men act like dependent babies who need managers, agents and handlers to do everything for them - down to even things like feeding them, finding them women, and finding them drugs.

All that said, big up artists, managers, agents, etc... who are professional and get things done even under tough circumstances



Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 10:24PM
Ras James - Oops I stand corrected, sorry I thought those guys were city lads..

Good point about the artists being their own worst enemy - it does indeed seem that a great number of reggae artists actually actively sabotage themselves with their own behavior, actions & attitude, but will be quick to place any blame on external sources.

Fwiw - The one experience I had trying to help out a certain washed up artiste with a live date turned into a complete fiasco. It was a festival spot I helped coordinate for a decent fee & travel from the UK. Everything was cool until about a few weeks before I get a call, the artiste is all of a sudden located in another country asking for me to wire money for airfare from X to the UK & moaning the fee is too low seeing as its a festival, I pass on wiring money, they bail on the gig. Turns out they then go on a small tour in the UK as a guest artiste with some package tour at the same time the festival was booked so, had I wired money I would have been stiffed since the artiste obviously already never intended to show up.

The one stage festival itself was packed & featured top class reggae headliners & it would have been great exposure to boost the (low) profile of this artiste. I'm sure they would have made more money & played before more people than on their whole other UK mini tour they chose to do. But the fun didn't end there as the artiste kept calling me to ask for money - things like Xmas presents for their kids, health insurance, expenses related to getting someone pregnant they met on tour, etc...wtf? Until I changed my telephone number.

Imagine what people who aren't reggae fans think. I talked with a booking agent in Europe from an agency who does rock & indie continent-wide tours. They took on a certain JA artiste whose tour ended up being a total fiasco, the agency then started getting random calls afterwards for money from JA so they kicked them off the roster - the calls for money kept coming & questions about 'so when is the next tour?' with the agent saying 'don't you get it? you're dropped...' this agent told me 'we will NEVER ever book any Jamaican artist ever again'...

You get talking with anyone who has dealt with reggae artists in a live context - promoters, club owners, tour managers, booking agents & out come the horror stories, all variations on a similar theme.

Another classic tactic reggae artists are notorious for is refusing to hit the stage just before showtime unless more cash is coughed up.

As has been mentioned in this thread - it seems many people who work with reggae artists are fans of the music & willing to put up with a lot of cr*p ..

And people wonder why reggae music isn't bigger than it is?



Post Edited (02-16-10 14:52)

www.myspace.com/twilightcircus
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 11:07PM
i sure don't envy ya'll job that's fo sho
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 11:35PM
BIGVEIN "lets face it.. black people are inherently unorganized people. many will dismiss this reply and cowardly react with their own "you're racist" reply. but their personal reaction is the one i am publically stating.

it takes jews and whites(italians) to organize the business side.

been this way since inception..

black people worked the front end.. whites/jews worked the backend.


it took jerry heller to boost NWA.
it took chris blackwell to boost bob marley.
it took jewish/itallian backers of motown to boost berry gordy(jewish roots)

everyone has their part.. as the saying goes."

Bigvein....are you serious. What I see is that white folks in this case tend to have the links and capital. They basically take the role of a parasite and live off the talents of others. Africans usually have the talents but no links or money to invest because in my experience certain ones in this world dont like to see InI Africans organized and if theres money to be made, they try their best to be a part of the equation to reap benefits. Examples can be seen when theres a "black" function theres usually some entity or group trying to stop it from being successful (seen or unseen) or the police presence is so thick it makes it unattractive to the masses. Some people like to control the world from what i see and InI who have been through the worst tribulation and dismantled to the four corners of the earth have to redeem the TRUST ISSUE that has been a plague in the (African) common-unity since slavery (mentally & physically). I dont wanna get too deep into the causes of the distrust but thats the MAIN reason for the disorganization. I believe Africans were well organized before someone came and stole, destroyed, and distorted I-story.....if you need examples of African organization check African civilizations before intruders invaded.

TRUTH & RIGHTS!!!!!
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 16, 2010 11:48PM
Prince Zahir wrote:


> Bigvein....are you serious. What I see is that white folks in
> this case tend to have the links and capital. They basically
> take the role of a parasite and live off the talents of others.

While I can't say I agree with Bigvein, I don't think calling the people involved in the business aspect of reggae, regardless of their color, parasites is always completely fair. As I pointed out earlier, most of the parasites in the business are artists themselves - who often love to hustle and take advantage of fans, producers, etc... who work hard and invest their money to give said artists a bly. After all, I've never seen a producer or manager fly to foreign, sleep on some guy's couch, eat all his food, smoke all his herb, take their money to do a sub-par album, have the host help them find whatever they need, etc.... and then turn around and call that host every name under the sun and blame them for not being a millionare... But I couldn't even count the number of times I've seen artists carry on with that kind of crap.



Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 12:38AM
Mis-interpreted. Forget it. I'll leave you two to it.



Post Edited (02-16-10 17:38)

Ever Forward
Empress
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 12:42AM
James I agree with your line of reasoning but my reasoning was in the context of InI as Afrikans being "inherently unorganized". My train of thought was actually addressing a wider scope of what I see in this world......exploitation on all levels from the "haves" over the "have-nots". My words you qouted was specifically speaking on the names mentioned (blackwell, heller,etc.). For a one to say that Afrikans cant be successfull in music, on a management or organized level, unless InI have backing by some white/jewish man is out of line and a uninformed realization of the bigger picture. Thats what I was addressing, his blanket statement which I took as saying InI are genetically incapable. To Eye it begins to sound like some 3/5 of a man or the Afrikan inferiority idiot-ology that my people have heard for so long. Its actually ironic but thats another topic. I think in this case the problem is rooted more in the culture of some parts of JA, where a lot of these artists are coming from, than just their race. We all know theres nuff conman of the world in high & low places of various races. So yes James you have a point as many others who have contributed to this reasoning.

I..EYE
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 12:49AM
Good post Zahir,
as you pointed out, that was indeed a blanket statement. Personally, I've delt with professionals and parasites from all sorts of backgrounds, so I don't think there's any basis for the claim made earlier that one race or ethnicity is inherently disorganized.



Post Edited (02-16-10 16:49)

Dr. Suess (aka Ras James)
Irie Sounds International
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 12:59AM
Wow - we've come to the caste system! Hey big vein - you hear the one about the sons of Ham?
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 01:09AM
selektahjohnbrown..


of course.. they were cursed.. to forever be the servant to his brothers.
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 01:26AM
i think you missed my point boss. This was used to justify the enslavement of Africans - that is an example of what happens when we are told that one man is this and another that based on his skin color/origin.
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 01:39AM
One artist who does seem to "get it" is Anthony B. More artists should follow his example:

1. Connect with an organized management company who has a good Nor-Cal network. In this case, 7 Star Entertainment.

2. Realize when you have found a rich fan base like we have in Nor-Cal.

3. Make the most of this resource by touring consistently. Come through at least twice a year minimum.

4. Keep the shows lean and mean. No filler acts or first timers. Put a respected DJ on the tables to keep the heads bobbing in between.

5. Work hard each and every show to make sure that all of your fans who paid to come see you leave feeling like they got their money's worth. This is where the true work ethic comes in. Unfortunately not all "artists" get it. Fans are going to reward hard working performers, and punish the weak ones.

My wife and I have seen Anthony B almost 10 times in the last 2 years, and I can't remember a bad show. He connects with the audience and creates a shared experience. I know that a large part of this is due to his own God given talent, but these traits can be learned by other performers willing to put the time in.

From all the complaints on the board, it seems like we as a group are finally reaching a tipping point for how much b*** s*** we will take. Maybe it is time for us to start exposing the con-artists and flakes. No more stories about artists without names. Who is the "so and so" who tried to extort more money out of you? Who is the unnamed artist who pulled a no-show on your club? Lets put their names out for everyone to see. If somebody wants to defend their behavior, this is a great venue for it.

smell that in the air?...it's revolution.



He who digs at the pit is doomed to fall in it
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 01:40AM




Post Edited (02-16-10 17:40)

He who digs at the pit is doomed to fall in it
Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 03:38AM
anyone ever read about peter tosh's experience with the rolling stones or more precisely, vice versa?

they owe him millions you know, for all the records on their label that he sold and never got paid for.

if you believe that crap, i got a bridge to sell you.

it would all be too funny if it werent true.

one love
jah bill
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 10:03AM
That's another thing I've noticed is the artistes tend to hugely, massively overestimate their past & potential record sales - to an absurd degree really & will make themselves feel ill and bitter about the imagined sums they've been robbed of.

Had a chat once with a certain foundation artist who had been with a Major for a while & the amounts they estimated were in the order of what massively successful artistes like the Rolling Stones, Abba, Madonna etc have done over the length of their careers..just not based in reality in any way.

I used to think that this might have been part of some elaborate plan for artistes to manipulate people into paying them more money / extract more perks / feel sympathy & try to help them, but I came to realize that it was at least in some cases, a genuine belief with a connection to their own feeling of self worth. When JA artistes get together often one of the things that starts going on is oneupmanship on popularity, alleged fees for shows and dubplates, trying to outdo each other & I suppose the amount you've sold and allegedly been robbed of plays into this.

Not saying that reggae artistes haven't been cheated or taken advantage of since this was especially common in the early days in particular at the hands of JA producers & labels. But AFAIK the only reggae artistes to sell significant amounts in the order of multi millions are Marley & UB40.



Post Edited (02-17-10 06:02)

www.myspace.com/twilightcircus
Re: Reggae concerts & no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 10:09AM
BTW - I wish to disassociate myself completely from the content of Big Vein's post in this thread.

I regret that such a comment became part of the discussion here.



Post Edited (02-17-10 02:25)

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Re: Reggae concerts &amp; no shows / late starts
February 17, 2010 06:17PM
cats are on CP time that is all. Brothers show up on their own time. Why do you think church lasts for 4 or 5 hours on Sunday in the African American community? If it only lasted an hour the attendance would fall by about 75%. This certainly is a stereotype. It is also pretty damn true. I doubt pigment has a lot to do with showing up on time, but CP time is some real shi+.
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